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Richard Read
Richard Read
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Richard Read covers technology, social media, advertising, legal issues, and other auto industry topics for High Gear Media. With a background in...
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Jon Lauckner, VP of Global Program Management at GM
A week ago, Carnegie Mellon University issued a report that said long- and mid-range electric cars are "not cost effective in any scenario". Their rationale?
- The expense of installing a battery big enough to get 40 miles per charge is never going to pay for itself in fuel savings.
- Furthermore, just producing those batteries has a more negative impact on the environment than the C02 emissions of a hybrid car with a shorter electric range--say, something around seven to ten miles per charge.
- Electric car batteries don't seem to hold up more than seven years max, and when they run out, owners face junking the car after less than a decade or installing a new battery for a chunky $16,000 or so.
All that is to say that cars like the gas-electric 2011 Chevrolet Volt, which shoot for the 40-mile option on electric only, then back it up with a small gas engine, should be reconfigured to run off hybrid powertrains with smaller, lighter, cheaper, shorter-range batteries.
A week later, General Motors' VP of Global Program Management, Jon Lauckner, has posted the official GM response. His arguments?
- A battery with only a seven-mile range means a major inconvenience for buyers, since they'll be recharging more often.
- With only a seven-mile range, the 78% of drivers who commute 40 miles (or less) to work would spend most of their time running off their gasoline engines, which would erase the environmental benefits of driving an electric car.
- Batteries for the Volt are expected to run closer to $4,000, not $16,000.
- When CMU was crunching cost-effectiveness, it forgot to take into account the federal tax credits for purchasers of electric vehicles, which run from $2500 to $7500.
A very unscientific poll conducted in the TCC employee lounge has revealed that both CMU and GM are, in business lingo, full of it. And here's why:
- In GM's favor: If CMU was that far off on battery cost estimates, that's a major strike against the study's accuracy. Since battery cost is one of the cornerstones of CMU's argument, you have to wonder what else they might've flubbed.
- Also in GM's favor: Who's gonna want a car with an electric-only range of seven miles? How can that begin to offset the cost of the powertrain?
- In CMU's favor: Even with the reduced battery expense, the Volt is still going to run around $40,000. If Americans drive around 12,000 miles per year, and they save around 10 cents per mile with an electric car, the buyer of a $40,000 Volt would have to drive it for over 13 years to make that purchase more beneficial than buying a $24,000 hybrid like the 2009 Prius. Even the most commitment-friendly folks are gonna wince at that.
- Also in CMU's favor: As one commenter on the GM site so succintly put it, "If the business plan for success of the Volt requires a sweetheart legislation package of incentives, then it’s not a good business plan."
- And thirdly in CMU's favor: GM never addresses the environmental impact of producing the 40-mile-range batteries and whether that might be offset by performance. Seems like sloppy debate technique to us--but then, we were statewide Lincoln-Douglas champs back in high school. (Go 'Naders!)
Feel free to rip us a new one via email or in the comments below. Go on: we dare you.
[sources: Bloomberg, GMblogs]
Have an opinion?
Jon Posted: 3/5/2009 1:09pm PST
"Not everyone lives in a city"
gslippy Posted: 3/5/2009 1:58pm PST
"CMU is right"
Even if GM's $4000 estimate is right, the resale value of a used Volt will be pretty poor if the buyer is wary of this expense.
Matt Posted: 3/5/2009 4:44pm PST
"RE: City"
Tim Posted: 3/5/2009 5:10pm PST
"Wrong again"
Chris Rose Posted: 3/5/2009 5:25pm PST
"Mr"
jayC Posted: 3/6/2009 7:22am PST
"MANAGER"
There are a lot of doomsayers, but I'm excited because someone (GM) has taken the steps to change what we drive, and maybe this is the beginning of the end of our dependence on foreign oil, and in the future fossil fuels altogether.
Richard Posted: 3/6/2009 9:17am PST
"We're optimistic, but..."
Seven years isn't a particularly long time to drive one vehicle, but if the battery gives out at seven years (as the CMU study indicates), replacement would totally wipe out any of the Volt's savings.
Trust me: we're all very excited about the possibilities. The industry as a whole is in turmoil now, but the future is thrilling. That said, the way forward is complex, and there will be some serious missteps. Electric cars are definitely on the menu, but at the Volt's cost, it doesn't seem to make much sense--and if it doesn't make much sense, chances are, it won't sell.
R2dad Posted: 3/7/2009 7:23pm PST
"and yet..."
JRL Posted: 3/10/2009 3:39pm PDT
"On the bright side"
Richard Posted: 3/13/2009 5:06am PDT
"That's not quite the point"
.
Also: some of us hold onto vehicles MUCH LONGER than five years. Just sayin'.
Richard Posted: 3/13/2009 5:07am PDT
"That's not quite the point"
.
Also: some of us hold onto vehicles MUCH LONGER than five years. Just sayin'.
Jim Posted: 3/22/2009 7:27am PDT
"We gotta start somewhere"
Lyle Posted: 3/26/2009 5:29pm PDT
"Remember Also"
confused Posted: 4/3/2009 12:02pm PDT
"Ms."
I am definately not a liberal, but I gotta tell ya ... something is VERY strange about what has happened and is happening with the electric car. Perhaps refreshing ourselves by watching a little film called "Who Killed the Electric Car?" would be helpful.
confused Posted: 4/3/2009 12:03pm PDT
"Ms."
I am definately not a liberal, but I gotta tell ya ... something is VERY strange about what has happened and is happening with the electric car. Perhaps refreshing ourselves by watching a little film called "Who Killed the Electric Car?" would be helpful.
Mark S Posted: 4/7/2009 6:31am PDT
"Feasible Electric Cars"
driver Posted: 4/12/2009 9:53am PDT
"The Electric Car"
Marian the Librarian Posted: 4/17/2009 3:01am PDT
"Once upon a hybred..."
P. A. Parker Posted: 4/17/2009 12:09pm PDT
"EV1"
David Maxwell Posted: 5/22/2009 12:48pm PDT
"You need to do better research"
only will EEStor save the planet but it will also revolutionize many electrical problems currently faces in industry. No environmental issues one tenth the wait of current batteries etc. Please try to update your thoughts on the Electric car and don't trust the company that HAD an electric car, a car that could savwe them from bankruptcy ,the same company that sold the rights to their own succesfull battery to an oil company. Way to go GM. Morons
Patrick Posted: 7/3/2009 5:36am PDT
Q. What is the range on a fully charged Lightning?
A. We are seeking to exceed a range of 188miles/300km on a full charge.
Whine w/that cheese Posted: 8/6/2009 12:58pm PDT
One major equation that has been missed by CMU; what happens when oil prices raise the price of gas to $5 plus dollars a gallon and that is not an if, it’s only a matter of when!
Now let’s address the $24,000 Prius hybrid. I commute 120 miles round trip a day, by the way I have a 2009 Chevrolet Tahoe Hybrid, and I am exposed to these small fuel efficient hybrids on a daily basis. Just the other day I was following one of them that was occupied by three large occupants. We were in stop and go traffic and this thing could hardly get back up to speed after slowing in traffic which resulted in adding an additional (estimated) 20 minutes commute time to everyone behind them. I wonder how that figures in the equation?
Chris Posted: 8/13/2009 11:13pm PDT
There is nothing wrong with the concept of an electric car. It still needs to be perfected though.
The people who call others doomsayers or afraid of change have a narrow field of view. At this time it will cost more to operate an electric or hybrid. The cars cost more for one. The batteries will wear out. They have a seven year life span that is not saying at seven years they quit. They will gradually need to be charged more often and not hold a charge as long well before seven years. For those concerned about the environment need to research how destructive it is to produce a battery. The environments around these plants are dead. NASA tests there Mars rovers at a plant in Canada because the area is dead like Mars. That is why they are not made in the US. The EPA would have a fit.
What about the electricity? I wonder if that cost was figured in. It is not free. Plug your hair dryer or electric heater in and leave it running for a 2 weeks and see what your bill will be for the month. That is only using 1500 watts. An electric car will need to be charged 10 to 12 hours every day. Guess where the electric comes from. Coal, oil yes foreign, nuclear etc. If everybody drives an electric car we will need more foreign oil to make the electric to charge our cars. But that’s ok since we don’t have to actually pump it in ourselves. Out of site out of mind. Gas bills may go down but wait until the electric bill arrives. LOL What if I run my AC or radio, how will that affect the charge?
Someone mentioned not keeping the car for seven years. What will become of it? Who in their right mind would buy a used electric car that will not perform as well? Does it go in a landfill or left at a junkyard? What become of the batteries? Will they be leaking into the groundwater? We may have concerns in the US but most other places won’t care.
E85 is a joke cost about 10 to 20 cents less than gas. You get less miles per gallon, less power.
People who think they are supporting foreign countries buy buying gas need to look at reality. If you don't want to support them then stop buying the product. I get my gas from an oil field in Texas that distributes all around the country. Research people. Foreign oil is not the only import. Go to Wal-Mart or any store. Everything we buy comes from foreign countries.
Maybe in time the technology will get better but you have to remember, electric cars have been around for a very long time as well as ethanol. There is not much improvement. I like my gas powered car and I bet I will be passing a lot of electrics on the roadways because I know my gas range and I can get gas anywhere. Good luck getting a charge because if you use the gas engine you could have gotten a bigger car at a cheaper price to do that.
gejandsons Posted: 8/23/2009 8:25pm PDT
randy j Posted: 9/17/2009 11:39am PDT
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