• Chris O avatar Chris O Posted: 7/9/2013 1:55pm PDT

    Correction: the Auris hybrid doesn't run "partly" on gas; it's not an electric car. It does have some fancy electric enhancements to improve efficiency but if you follow the energy chain you will find that all the energy comes from its gas tank just like all the oldtimers shown in the commercial.

    That's what's so clever about this commercial: it suggests next generation technology befitting a high-tech age but what's really on offer is pure steampunk: age old mechanical principles refined to absurd levels in a desperate attempt to keep up with the demands of a new era, all brought to you by a company that resists real next generation technology because the old ICE business model has always treated it so well.

  • fb_1620173176 avatar fb_1620173176 Posted: 7/11/2013 6:39am PDT

    Yes, I totally agree with you on this, Chris. Even in Japan, how many times have I heard people say, "Hybrid cars run partly on gas and partly on electricity."? Everytime I heard that, I have to explain that actually all energy comes from the combustion of the engine. It's a pity that Toyota quit producing RAV 4 EV in 2003 and hasn't produced any EVs since then. That makes me wonder who killed the electric car?

  • fb_1620173176 avatar fb_1620173176 Posted: 7/11/2013 6:42am PDT

    I mean "combustion of gasoline or diesel fuel".

  • fb_1559222512 avatar Xiaolong Posted: 7/11/2013 2:36pm PDT

    So you agree that calling Prius a "hybrid" is a marketing scam by Toyota.

  • fb_1259797080 avatar fb_1259797080 Posted: 7/9/2013 3:07pm PDT

    Hybrid: a streampunked ICE-age vehicle, powered by rotted dinosaur food, that can reduce energy waisted while breaking.

    btw: Great article!

  • fb_1559222512 avatar Xiaolong Posted: 7/9/2013 6:19pm PDT

    Why should we even call it a "hybrid" when it ONLY has one source of energy input?

    It is a single source energy vehicle. It can only take gasoline as energy source.

    A PHEV/EREV is a true "hybrid" in the sense of dual energy sourced vehicle.

    Toyota is just keep on scamming the world with its "hybrid".

  • Chris O avatar Chris O Posted: 7/10/2013 4:04am PDT

    In all fairness: from a drivetrain perspective the Auris is a hybrid but you are right: from an energy perspective it's a thoroughbred gas muncher.

    The confusion is to do with the fact that there is two ways to define EVs. The definition the industry prefers is based on drivetrain: if there is an electric motor involved somewhere they like to suggest it's (partly)an EV.

    Problem with that definition is that EVs are not about solving drivetrain problems but energy problems. From an energy viewpoint a car is an EV to the extend it uses electrons from an external source.

    So basically if a car doesn't have a plug there is little point in calling it an EV.

  • fb_1620173176 avatar fb_1620173176 Posted: 7/11/2013 6:56am PDT

    I was surprised when I was in the US that people think their diesel trains are not pure diesel but hybrid and call them "diesel electric" because their drivetrains use electrric motors. (Am I right?) How can you expect a train to be run partly on electricity when there's no overhead line above the railroad track?

  • john_v avatar John Posted: 7/10/2013 5:06am PDT

    @Xiaolong: Dial it down a little, would you?

    The Prius and another 4 million or so "hybrid-electric vehicles" are hybrids not due to using two separate energy sources, but to powering the wheels with torque from both a gasoline engine and one (or more) electric motor-generators.

    You may not like this definition, but it is now accepted in the automotive community and has been for 15+ years.

    Can we perhaps agree to set this line of discussion aside to avoid confusion?

  • fb_1001015277 avatar John Posted: 7/10/2013 6:39am PDT

    The term hybrid is well established and irrational ranting should be reserved for what to call the Chevy Volt which is really the new kid on the block.

  • fb_1559222512 avatar Xiaolong Posted: 7/10/2013 11:43am PDT

    If the hybrid term is used for the powertrain split, then all so called "series-hybrid", "fuel cell" and EREVs should be called EVs instead of hybrids..

    Try to explain that to the hardcore BEV fans...

  • fb_1559222512 avatar Xiaolong Posted: 7/10/2013 5:41pm PDT

    I already said that Volt should be called either as "dual source" vehicle or EV+.

  • fb_1559222512 avatar Xiaolong Posted: 7/10/2013 11:41am PDT

    "but to powering the wheels with torque from both a gasoline engine and one (or more) electric motor-generators."

    Okay, if that is the case, then why bother with something called "series-hybrid" definition? Would the upcoming BMW i3 with extender called EV or "series-hybrid"?

    Is a Fuel Cell car a series-hybrid or an electric car?

    Automotive community is just a "community" of self/group acclaimed experts...

    I think we are at the edge of technology shift here. Lines of definition is getting blurry...

  • john_v avatar John Posted: 7/10/2013 1:12pm PDT

    @Xiaolong: [sigh] A series hybrid is one whose engine only runs a generator that provides electricity to the motor that turns the wheels.

    Hence, a Fisker Karma is a series hybrid, but a Volt is not exclusively a series hybrid: It has a parallel mode in which, at highway speeds, the engine can feed output torque directly into the transmission (along with torque from the e-motor).

    As for the BMW i3, until we see whether the engine also has that ability or whether it has no mechanical connection at all to the drive wheels ... we don't know.

    As I understand it, hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles are series hybrids because fuel cells do NOT put out mechanical torque. The only output is electricity.

  • fb_1559222512 avatar Xiaolong Posted: 7/10/2013 5:31pm PDT

    "As I understand it, hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles are series hybrids because fuel cells do NOT put out mechanical torque. The only output is electricity."

    Okay, by that definition, then a BEV (battery electric vehicle) is also a series-hybrid. Since the battery is there to provide electricity through chemical reaction. Doesn't that sound silly to call any "series-hybrid" as a hybrid?

    They should all be called EVs.

  • fb_1559222512 avatar Xiaolong Posted: 7/10/2013 11:56am PDT

    "You may not like this definition, but it is now accepted in the automotive community"

    That just proves that if you got money and keep pushing for something long enough, it will happen. Regardless how the truth works...

  • john_v avatar John Posted: 7/10/2013 1:13pm PDT

    @Xialong: I trust you're not implying that I have money?

  • fb_1559222512 avatar Xiaolong Posted: 7/10/2013 5:35pm PDT

    I was talking about Toyota and automotive expert community.

    The defintion of so called word "hybrid" has been muddy. If it is strictly used to classify the final powertrain configuration, then Prius is a hybrid and Fisker Karma is an EV and so are all the series-hybrid and fuel cell cars. But if the word is used to describe the "moving parts" of the car, then all the ICE cars are potentially hybrids as well. But if it is used to describe "energy" source, then Prius is nothing more than ICE. All plugins are either electric or electric plus gasoline as in dual source vehicles like the PHEV designation in 2011 by EPA/SAE.

  • fb_1620173176 avatar fb_1620173176 Posted: 7/11/2013 6:21am PDT

    Thank you for posting this tv ad. I've never seen it before because I'm living in Japan. And I've been a Nissan Leaf owner since March 2011. And I'm also one of the first commercial owners of the Mitsubishi i-MiEV since June 2010.