• fb_1134791105 avatar Mittar Posted: 5/2/2013 8:07am PDT

    Damnit, now I have to wait till 2015! I was just about set to buy early next year.

  • robok2 avatar robok2 Posted: 5/2/2013 9:22am PDT

    Our timing is a little off, but my Volt lease ends in early 2015. I was already leaning toward a pure EV and not another Volt but I still want to see what's out there, of course.

    Would a lease make sense for you for 2-3 years? That's the only reason I leased, so I could buy/lease again once there were more options. Anyway, good luck with whatever you decide to do!

  • fb_1134791105 avatar Mittar Posted: 5/2/2013 10:52am PDT

    A lease might make sense if I were planning on the next, cheaper, Tesla. But it's difficult for me to plan on that without knowing how much, what, and when that will be. It's on my list of things to consider though.

  • fb_799475006 avatar Pat Posted: 5/2/2013 7:19pm PDT

    extend your lease one year, then, go to the next gen.

  • robok2 avatar robok2 Posted: 5/3/2013 11:26am PDT

    Yeah, understood. Many of us here are in similar shoes. I'm tempted to make an early deposit on a Model S, but not before seeing the i3, for example. I love Audi and that's what I drove before my Volt and want to see what they offer, too.

    Whatever you get, I'm sure you'll love it. One big decision for me is solar; I absolutely want it by 2015 in time to get an EV, not PHEV, but the cost could limit my EV choices.

  • fb_777648896 avatar Robert Posted: 5/2/2013 9:37am PDT

    Please for the love of Volt give us FIVE (5, cinco, Fünf, Cinque, Cinq, Пять, 五, חמש , خمسة, Πέντε, पांच, Beş, Cinci) seats!

  • vdiv avatar vdiv Posted: 5/2/2013 5:18pm PDT

    In such a small car? Why?

    We should ask VW to put 5 seats in the CC, Audi in the A7, Porsche in the Panamera, Mercedes in the CLS, or Aston Martin in the Rapide. ;)

    Instead, GM should have produced the MPV5 by now.

  • robok2 avatar robok2 Posted: 5/3/2013 1:32pm PDT

    I would agree. Of course, it would be great if GM could offer both the Volt and a CUV/MPV to satisfy different customer demands. I actually usually prefer four-seaters (hate bench seats!) but the hump in the back makes for a very uncomfortable ride for our dog...

    Let's hope the Voltec system or a new system makes its way to more vehicles by GM, but considering the slumping Volt sales recently, GM may err on the side of caution.

  • Krafter324 avatar Krafter324 Posted: 5/2/2013 7:49am PDT

    Hopefully this will come without sacrificing the things that people have come to love about the car. Look forward to seeing the next gen

  • Chris O avatar Chris O Posted: 5/2/2013 1:31pm PDT

    I think GM drops another hint here that its on to some pretty impressive next gen battery tech. Only with massively improved battery tech could the next gen be substantially cheaper and lighter because as a concept PHEVs are very complex and expensive to build, something that won't go away after the first generation.

  • fb_598247514 avatar Benjie Posted: 5/2/2013 8:21am PDT

    This is great news. But can we know what exactly is the difference between the previous one and the new model as to make the price for the latter lower? Will it sacrifice durability and/or performance?

  • Anne-nl avatar Anne-nl Posted: 5/2/2013 9:43am PDT

    The difference is not so much the car, it is the production process and probably battery. Never underestimate routine as a major force to lower cost. Larger numbers will help too.

    Are the cheaper telephones, computers, televisions of today technically inferior to those of 10, 20 years ago?

  • SafetyMan avatar SafetyMan Posted: 5/2/2013 1:14pm PDT

    As technology and manufacturing processes improve, things become cheaper. Think back to several years ago when DVD players first came out, and they cost $1000. Today, a DVD player with comperable features is half the size and around $20 simply because technology and the manufacturing process has improved. As batteries become more efficient in storage capabilities, you can use fewer, smaller batteries which will save money without impacting performance.

  • john_v avatar John Posted: 5/2/2013 2:33pm PDT

    @Kevin: Battery cells do not improve at the same rate as microprocessor based consumer electronics, however.

    Those consumer electronic devices follow Moore's Law, which says that processing power doubles roughly every 18 months.

    Battery cells, on the other hand, improve in cost-performance roughly 7 percent a year:

    Don't make the mistake of confusing improvement rates in two quite different technologies.

  • fb_742416538 avatar James Posted: 5/2/2013 11:21pm PDT

    7% per year is still very considerable. In five years batteries will be 40% more powerful by these numbers. So the LEAF would go 120-140 miles, the biggest Model S would have a range of 370-420 miles. That's the range of a lot of petrol cars these days! Or alternatively it will help GM sell the Volt profitably...

    Also the more major manufacturers get into battery development the faster that development will go!

  • markrogo avatar markrogo Posted: 5/3/2013 10:38pm PDT

    Just to be clear, the Model S basically is running on 2011's batteries. As to what a 2018 would be able to use, that's another question, but I wouldn't use 2013 as the baseline year.

  • Chris O avatar Chris O Posted: 5/3/2013 3:22am PDT

    @ John Voelcker: Not the tired old 7% improvement myth again. That was never an accurate rule of thumb in the past nor will it be in the future. Only a few years ago "experts" pegged battery cost between $700-1200/KWh. Today companies like Nissan and Tesla have battery cost in the $300-$400/KWH ball park. How does that add up to 7% /year improvement?

    The hints GM drops about 200 mile EVs and PHEVs that are substantially lighter and cheaper indicates how battery costs really develop: by leaps and bounds depending breakthroughs in battery technology and production technology.

  • john_v avatar John Posted: 5/3/2013 3:21pm PDT

    @Chris: As I've said before, I've spoken to engineers at both battery companies + their clients, the automakers.

    Unless and until you can show me studies, or introduce me to sources who will go on record, supporting your view that the rate is far higher than 7 percent a year, I'll stick with the results of the interviews I've done over several years.

    I'm always open to changing my views. But "hints" from automakers, from GM to Tesla, are just that. GM could make a 200-mile electric car TODAY: It would have a 40- or 50-kWh battery pack. Whether it could do so at a reasonable cost is the issue.

    Akerson + predecessors, recall, also "hinted" they'd sell 60K Volts in 2012. They didn't.

  • fb_799475006 avatar Pat Posted: 5/3/2013 11:08am PDT


    Moore's law is not a law of nature, it reflects the investment of R&D of the big silicon companies. When R&D slows, change slows.

    Now we are seeing some real investment in battery and consequently the improvement rate is speeding up

  • There are more comments in this thread
  • MrEnergyCzar avatar MrEnergyCzar Posted: 5/5/2013 8:11pm PDT

    They probably should have waited a year before saying that.... could hurt sales.


  • fb_633185601 avatar Brian Posted: 5/2/2013 9:56am PDT

    I really hope that the next Volt will have 5 seats. With a wife and three kids, the current volt lacks versatility.

  • robok2 avatar robok2 Posted: 5/3/2013 1:34pm PDT

    Although I prefer the four bucket seats, personally, I understand that I'm in a relatively small minority there and that's partially because of no kids. There's no doubt that the current seats hurt sales.

  • fb_599454693 avatar Jan Posted: 5/2/2013 10:35am PDT

    Same here - Without 5 seats the car is irrelevant for me. 5 seats make it a sure buy.

  • Brian_Henderson avatar Brian_Henderson Posted: 5/2/2013 1:14pm PDT

    Wondering how the 2015 Volt price reductions will play into how the 2014 Cadillac ELR is priced?

    The ELR is great looking design based on technology derived from Volt power train. GM has stated that ELR production volume will be limited. Sharing technology is a great way to lower costs and increased vehicle options are great for drivers. :)

  • robok2 avatar robok2 Posted: 5/3/2013 11:29am PDT

    A very good question, Brian. Unfortunately, my company car allowance is fine for the Volt but not the ELR, so it won't help me personally either way. But I love the design.

  • Mark C avatar Mark C Posted: 5/3/2013 5:07am PDT

    50+ mile EPA battery electric range please, improved heater that doesn't drain the battery as fast, bright colors without paying extra.

  • fb_633185601 avatar Brian Posted: 5/3/2013 6:00am PDT

    I wonder how they are allocating the fixed costs of car production? Are they not making a profit on the variable cost of each Volt?

  • fb_799475006 avatar Pat Posted: 5/3/2013 11:09am PDT

    it's great if the price drops, that would really make the VOLT affordable, but,
    what it really needs to drive up sales is an offboard inverter. If you could plug in the volt and use it for emergency power, the sales would skyrocket.

  • MrEnergyCzar avatar MrEnergyCzar Posted: 5/5/2013 8:14pm PDT

    I run my pellet stove and fridge already with my Volt. You just get the Volt EVextend wire kit and you can plug-in a pure sine wave inverter for your home, can run up to 2,000 watts continuous. The kit costs about $150.