• hi100 avatar hi100 Posted: 7/18/2011 10:55am PDT

    They are not practical for the average commuter or driver. You will need a gas engine to back up the system. Otherwise, it is for the environmental nut.
    I will not buy one, regardless of the price of gas.

  • fb_1322599804 avatar Paul Posted: 7/19/2011 11:56am PDT

    You clearly don't understand the need to get off of oil. You are polluting other people's air without their permission, and you aren't compensating them for it. You are using a fuel that comes from oil that is 60% imported from other countries. This is 45% of our trade deficit, so you are hurting our economy by sending your money out of the country. We are fighting three wars over oil right now and those wars have cost us thousands of dead soldiers and tens of thousands of wounded soldiers. The wars have cost us over $1.5 trillion dollars, yet when you buy gas, you pay for none of that.

    If you continue to drive on gas, you'll be hurting your fellow citizens, you'll be hurting our economy, and you'll be putting our country at risk.

  • USAFANG67 avatar USAFANG67 Posted: 7/19/2011 8:03pm PDT

    But ever time we want to drill for oil here in the US there is the EPA, Greenpeace, Sierra Club etc. blocking this effort. It's the we want energy independence but as long as you don't drill in my back yard mentality.

  • fb_1322599804 avatar Paul Posted: 7/19/2011 8:19pm PDT

    Matt, we have less than 4% of the world's oil. We use about 25% of the world's oil. We could drill everything, but not come close to meeting our demands. If we drill everything now, we blow it out our tailpipes for pennies on the dollar. Then, since we pumped all of our oil, polluted our skies, and didn't transition to EVs, we'll have to make the transition immediately at tremendous cost since gas will be hugely expensive by then, and all those still driving internal combustion cars will just have to pay, or stop driving.

    This is the result of going the route you suggest. We suggest transitioning as quickly as possible to renewable electricity from foreign oil.

  • fb_1443176279 avatar Randall Posted: 6/24/2012 10:23pm PDT

    How exactly do you quantify "polluting other people's air"? Your Leaf uses a fossil fuel just like gas guzzling Honda Civics on the road use a fossil fuel. Isn't buying a Leaf sending money out of the country? Yes...they build them in Tennessee, but the money is going to Japan. A huge industry exists in america that takes oil and makes some pretty neat and practical things out of it. A big percentage of that Leaf is made with oil products (tires, interior panels, paint, plastic water bottle seats, etc.) The roads that Leaf rolls on are made of petrochemicals (that means derivatives from oil to non-voting ignoramuses).

  • fb_1443176279 avatar Randall Posted: 6/24/2012 10:25pm PDT

    You should have said "If you continue to drive at all, you'll be hurting your fellow citizens, you'll be hurting our economy, and you'll be putting our country at risk."

  • RedmondChad avatar RedmondChad Posted: 7/19/2011 12:07pm PDT

    I am an average driver. So is my wife. We have been driving electric vehicles for a couple of years, and they work just great. I don't think you understand the usage model.
    Why do you have to be an "environmental nut" to want one? A lot of people don't care about the environment, but do care about buying foreign oil. It's half our trade deficit; $1 billion dollars EVERY DAY out of our economy; and OPEC controls 80% of the reserve so it's strategically stupid to depend on it. That's why the Department of Defence is working so hard to switch to electrified vehicles, where they can use domestic fuel. The DOD is not an "environmental nut" sort of organization.
    And there's financial reasons. Very cheap fuel and almost no maintenance.

  • fb_1001015277 avatar John Posted: 7/19/2011 1:04pm PDT

    I am afraid this gentleman (or lady) shut his brain off in the middle of writing this.

    So he won't switch "regardless of the price of gas"? Really, $10/gallon, $20/gallon? Hope you realize that electric is equivalent of about $1/gallon.

    Perhaps you should think about it a little more.

    As for needing a gasoline engine, firstly, that is not necessarily true. Secondly, if the vehicle does have both a gas engine and electric motor, so what. Your beloved gasoline engine already has an electric motor, it is called the starter. What is wrong with having a little bit bigger electric motor?

  • USAFANG67 avatar USAFANG67 Posted: 7/19/2011 8:07pm PDT

    Our nations electrical grid system is being held together with ducktape and bailing wire. No major federal monies have been allocated to bring it up to the 21st Century. There have been many articles and documentary done on our crumbling infrastructure. The last thing we need is ramp up demand on an already outdated system.

  • RedmondChad avatar RedmondChad Posted: 7/19/2011 8:55pm PDT

    The problem with the grid is peak capacity. But 88% of charging is at night, when we have tons of unused capacity. The DOE says we could convert 78% of our cars to electric overnight with NO changes to the grid. In fact electric prices could come down because they would be selling more units without having to pay extra capital costs.
    Portland General Electric said that if 10% of cars are electric by 2020, and they all malevolently charged at peak times, they would only have to grow their capacity by 2% to meet the extra demand. They already plan on growing more than that because of other reasons. This is not a good argument against electric cars either.

  • RedmondChad avatar RedmondChad Posted: 7/19/2011 8:55pm PDT

    The problem with the grid is peak capacity. But 88% of charging is at night, when we have tons of unused capacity. The DOE says we could convert 78% of our cars to electric overnight with NO changes to the grid. In fact electric prices could come down because they would be selling more units without having to pay extra capital costs.
    Portland General Electric said that if 10% of cars are electric by 2020, and they all malevolently charged at peak times, they would only have to grow their capacity by 2% to meet the extra demand. They already plan on growing more than that because of other reasons. This is not a good argument against electric cars either.

  • USAFANG67 avatar USAFANG67 Posted: 7/18/2011 10:26am PDT

    IMHO yes EV/Hydrids are a waste of time.
    There was a study done recently stating the the GP is not jumping on this band wagon as fast as the auto industry would like us to. The article did not go into detail as to why but did say the GP still wants to still with the conventional power-train we now all use.
    One big concern for me that is, is that buying a EV/Hybrid is equivalent to a shotgun wedding......you are stuck with the dealer for service short of say just a simple oil change. I think I'd rather have a root canal done rather than deal with the dealer especially Honda give my recent transmission failure on my 2004 Accord with 80k miles!! Honda wanted $3k to fix with one year warranty. A transmission shop quoted me $2300.

  • RedmondChad avatar RedmondChad Posted: 7/19/2011 12:04pm PDT

    You will have to reference the "study", as that makes no sense. Every EV and plug-in hybrid that has been built has been quickly snapped up. The general public is buying them as fast as they are built, and there are waiting lists. The constraints are on the supply side.
    Why are you stuck with the dealer any more than with a gas car? Gas cars have computers too. But batteries and electric motors can be fixed by other people. And there are hundreds fewer parts to need replacement in the first place.

  • USAFANG67 avatar USAFANG67 Posted: 7/19/2011 7:56pm PDT

    It wasn't too long ago that I read that Toyota Prius were being stockpiled at the docs because of low demand. If the demand has increased it is only because of the recent rise in gas pricing nearing the $4/gal. I'm also referring to articles published about over all low demand for EV/Hybrids. So where the truth is as illusive as our members in Washington trying to balance the budget :-)

  • RedmondChad avatar RedmondChad Posted: 7/19/2011 8:59pm PDT

    You seem pretty confused. This article is about plug-in hybrids. The Prius is a regular hybrid--no plug.

  • fb_1001015277 avatar John Posted: 7/19/2011 12:59pm PDT

    Have a 2006 Prius and have not been to the dealer since 2006.

  • USAFANG67 avatar USAFANG67 Posted: 7/19/2011 7:59pm PDT

    Good for you but if you keep it beyond the battery pack warranty from Toyota who will want to buy it when you trade it in knowing full well that to replace the batteries is big bucks! I'm sure your trade in value will be effected when the battery pack is out of warranty.

  • soapyjohnson avatar soapyjohnson Posted: 7/19/2011 1:49am PDT

    Comment disabled by moderators.

  • RedmondChad avatar RedmondChad Posted: 7/19/2011 12:17pm PDT

    Funny site. There are a lot of good articles there.
    I hope you realize that none of it is true, though.

  • fb_1322599804 avatar Paul Posted: 7/19/2011 11:49am PDT

    It's not an either or question of EVs vs. plug-in hybrids, both are good and both will succeed in the marketplace. Many people will be fine with a 100 mile range EV as their daily driving needs never exceed that range. Others might need to drive longer distances now and then, so they will opt for the PHEV. Since 38% of American households have two cars and another 20% have three or more cars, that means a full 58% of American households could have one of each. This way, all of their daily driving will be on domestic electricity instead of dirty foreign oil. If they need to drive long distance, the PHEV will be the car they use.

  • RedmondChad avatar RedmondChad Posted: 7/19/2011 12:09pm PDT

    I agree. As you point out, most households have multiple cars, and they give up absolutely nothing by replacing one of those with an electric cars.
    The households with a single car give up absolutely nothing by getting a plug-in hybrid.
    They serve different markets; there is no reason to talk about a "war". Just like there is no war between minivans and sports cars. The only thing holding us up is supply!